Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  28

  My story

  by Dumi in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi guys, i joined the forum 2 days ago & i thought i should formally introduce myself to all you fellow apostates and while at it regail you with my story which may be familiar to some/all of you.. i was born into a jw family.

  my father converted from traditionalist (south africa) while my mother is a second generation jw.

  surfice to say i grew up (together with my three siblings) in the same jw drill... meetings, field ministry and secular school and thats about it.

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  Doubting Bro

  Welcome. Look forward to your contributions.
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  84

  DF'd and struggling....LONG POST........my story.

  by confuzzled777 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how do i make a long story short?

  i am fully aware that if anyone in my area were to read this that they will know who i am.

  i was disfellowshipped on january 28th 2010 after an "interview" about an evening of bowling with friends and family back in november 2009. i was among 4 who were disfellowshipped and 6 who were publicly reproved.

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  Doubting Bro

  wow confuzzled. I'm so sorry you and your husband were treated this way. It seems that you've figured out that they were going to make an example of someone and chose you. I've heard of party situations from time to time but inevitability it includes an unmarried couple hooking up. Short of that, I've only seen a slap on the wrist or a be more careful next time.

  Clearly an ambush. Those men should be ashamed of the way they treated you but I'll bet they're not.

  While it hurts now and will for awhile, you can look at this as an opportunity. Research the org, www.jwfacts.com is an excellent site that presents just the facts. Then, decide if its worth it to come back.

  Welcome to the board. It's a great place to vent.
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  25

  Are they really closing down branches in Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guyana ?

  by aligot ripounsous in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just got this information on the phone, from a local jw family member : the society is definitely downsizing its worldwide institutional network and they intend to disband their bethels in the three french overseas departements of martinique, guadeloupe an french guyana.

  i've not heard about the fourth departement la reunion in the indian ocean but i gather that they might go the same way there.. i wonder , what about the decent amount of money i donated to them in order to build one of those bethels , is it bound to be siphoned off to brooklyn ?

  objection, that was not included in the deal.

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  Doubting Bro

  BTW - The US version of the KM for November announced that Hawaii will not be a separate branch any longer and will be incorporated into the US branch (where it should have been anyway). I think last year Alaska and the Turks and Caicos islands were also folded into the US branch.

  This is purely a business move and quite frankly one that should have been done long ago. You don't need branch offices in every country to run a publishing business, er, I mean religion.

  They overexpanded into a declining market. Look at Barnes and Nobles who did the same thing.
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  66

  Highlights of Annual Meeting 2010

  by elderelite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for those who are interested, the following changes were announced yesterday at the agm.

  1) mts school has been done away with.

  a) in its place two new schools have been formed.

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  Doubting Bro

  Thanks for the info EE!

  Really intereting on the new MTS. I like how Dozy put it, Gilead-lite. In thinking about this, wouldn't it be the perfect first step in eliminating the CO positional altogether and putting that CO-lite arrangement that has been speculated on this board for a few years? You could easily have these folks "trained" to handle a small number of congregations in their local area.

  Are the wives going to be included in this or is it jus that married men will have the opportunity to participate?

  They're definately working toward some end game and this is just another change along the way.

  I'll bet the DOs are ticked about the additional oversight. If they eliminate the full time CO position, they would still keep the DO spot (according to the rumors). While there is plenty performance review material on COs (isn't that one of the central DO jobs?), the DOs are probably less reviewed or at least haven't been reviewed recently. So, they start a more formal review of their performance and can decide who to cut and how to hold.
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  40

  MY FIRST POST!!!!!

  by drewcoul in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been reading this website for months now.

  i am a born in who holds absolutely no animosity toward any witness.

  i have had weeks and weeks of trouble trying to log in, but i'm here now.. long story short, i am one of 4 children who were raised as witnesses.

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  Doubting Bro

  Welcome Drew. Wow you've certainly seen quite a bit. Look forward to hearing more from you.
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  25

  European Court of Human Rights to hear JWs tax case against France

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/french-news/europe-court-to-hear-jehovah-witness-tax-case-against-france_99836.html.

  europe court to hear jehovah witness tax case against france 9-29-10. the european court of human rights said wednesday it had agreed to consider a case brought by the jehovah witness christian sect against the french government over taxation of donations.. in its request, the group alleged an infringement of the right to religious freedom saying the french government had tried to curtail its activities by demanding in may 1998 taxes on donations from its followers.. the sect said the move was an attempt to end the autonomy of religious communities.. french authorities say the donations were not raised from a religious source and so were subject to the same rules as other donations.. the 1998 demand was for 45 million euros (61 million dollars) at the time, but this amount had since reached 57.5 million euros, according to france.. it involves donations from 250,000 people over four years, an average amount of four euros per person a month between 1993 and 1996.. the court, based in the french city of strasbourg, however rejected a case of religious discrimination against the jehovah's witnesses.. .

  2010 afp.

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  Doubting Bro

  I may be wrong but I seem to remember the French categorized JWs as a "dangerous sect" and not a real religion and therefore not subject to the tax exemption.

  But, I've also just read that the French government is saying that the donations were actually used to "purchase" literature and therefore subject to tax. In other words, the WTS is a publishing company that should be taxed as other publishing companies.

  If that's the argument, I can see this sticking. The fact is that most of the donations are used for the purpose of literature production. Think about it, the number of WT and Awakes each month, KMs, books, bibles, ect. If they were to spin off the literature production operation into a for profit entity, I would guess they would need at least 75% or more of the total revenues to support it.

  Without literature production, Bethel expenses would be really low. You would really only need a small office complex. DOs, COs and to some extent special pioneers are the only real clergy expenses. Of course, many Bethel heavies would also be included but still the number is pretty low. Plus, if you moved many of them to the for profit publishing company, there would be only a few left.

  Interesting problem. If the WTS loses this case, it will have a profound impact on how they run their business going forward. The Swaggart case here in the US had a drastic impact on their cashflow. I can see this case having just as much of an impact. Couple that with the Spainish government making them pay into social security (which I'd bet the rest of the EU may look into) and the poor economy and you have a recipe for major operational overhaul.
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  25

  European Court of Human Rights to hear JWs tax case against France

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/french-news/europe-court-to-hear-jehovah-witness-tax-case-against-france_99836.html.

  europe court to hear jehovah witness tax case against france 9-29-10. the european court of human rights said wednesday it had agreed to consider a case brought by the jehovah witness christian sect against the french government over taxation of donations.. in its request, the group alleged an infringement of the right to religious freedom saying the french government had tried to curtail its activities by demanding in may 1998 taxes on donations from its followers.. the sect said the move was an attempt to end the autonomy of religious communities.. french authorities say the donations were not raised from a religious source and so were subject to the same rules as other donations.. the 1998 demand was for 45 million euros (61 million dollars) at the time, but this amount had since reached 57.5 million euros, according to france.. it involves donations from 250,000 people over four years, an average amount of four euros per person a month between 1993 and 1996.. the court, based in the french city of strasbourg, however rejected a case of religious discrimination against the jehovah's witnesses.. .

  2010 afp.

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  Doubting Bro

  That's what it sounds like to me as well.

  I've been wondering what's been happening with this case. Ynot, you're right - if the WTS loses, I can see them shutting down any operations they have in France qicker than you can say "show me the money".

  This could really have an impact on their operations around the world.

  Should be interesting. I still think that you should not treat one religion differently from the others. I say, tax them all.
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  17

  Comment on CA from JW

  by purplesofa in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  had my ca last weekend.

  it was interesting,here what i got out of it, without giving spoilers, because i know they are not all the same.

  but it seems to me, that due to the new understandings a lot of friends are letting their guard down.possibly thinking, "well, if they change in doctrine once, who knows they might change again".

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  Doubting Bro

  I do find it interesting that the WTS is obviously having problems in the Spanish speaking congos here in the US. This population segement has been the only thing that has kept the numbers from turning negative in the US. If they're starting to slow down, that is not going to be good news for the WTS.

  Apathy continues to be a huge problem and they have no idea how to combat it.
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  47

  How does your congregation feel about the new song book?

  by stuckinamovement in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i stopped trying to sing the songs last meeting.

  it felt like a combination of chanting and stepping on a cat.

  it is terrible.

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  Doubting Bro

  When the new songs came out, didn't they "encourage" folks to get together to practice?

  Sir82 - you're right. There was a letter maybe a month or so read out that announced the songs at the CA so that people could practice ahead of time. I think there were a few songs that hadn't been played yet at a meeting and one where the words were the same but the actual music changed. Needless to say, no one practiced and it sounded just awful. Around where I was sitting, a few folks were laughing when some folks were singing the old song to the old tune rather than the new one.

  The best was one of the new songs that was really awkard (more than usual). Hearing 1,000 people quitely mumble was very funny.

  Nice job Bethel, way to suck what little life was left in your services.
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  35

  Could They Dump The Assemblies?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my theory continues to be that the governing body will be forced to break down the organization piece by piece.. so, i wonder: could they dump the assemblies?.

  it is clear - that they are having some problems in this area.

  they are selling off assembly halls in some countries, they have moved some district assemblies to assembly halls (to save money on rent) and the pleas for donations from the platform have not let up.. while zombie witlesses may drag themselves to meetings and out in service (with whatever literature/magazines the watchtower manages to afford) indefinitely, i watch this area with interest.

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  Doubting Bro

  MLE - you make a great point about the positive effect on morale that conventions have. My wife almost always buys a new dress for the convention as well as the memorial. Wait a second..... I think she would be buying new outfits regardless of the event! But, JWs have so few events to look forward to, to celebrate if you will, that a DC can seem like a good time.

  Interestingly, I attended a CA recently and got to see folks I hadn't seen for a long time. Honestly, I enjoyed catching up a bit. It was fun seeing them and reconnecting. But, I would have much rather done that at a party than at the CA.

  However, I also believe that money is the bottom line for the WTS. If those DCs are unprofitable at 3 days, I bet they will reduce to 2 days and see if they can turn a profit.

  There will always be larger gatherings as long as JWs exist, but I think the duration and frequency will depend 100% on profitability.

  St. George - Thanks for the links. Man I wish the US would do this. I would pay to see the WTS US branch books!!